The Erotic Currency: Findom, Straight Men, and Gay Desire with Dr Joe Kort | 02
Welcome to this episode featuring Dr. Joe Kort, a psychotherapist specialising in sexual health and relationships. In this conversation, we explore the complex and often misunderstood world of financial domination (findom), specifically the dynamic between straight men acting as dominants and gay men acting as submissives. While the combination of money and sex causes many untrained therapists to panic, Dr. Kort explains how financial domination functions as a psychological form of BDSM. We discuss the motivations behind this exchange, the role of social media in creating these digital personas, and how participants use money to navigate power, shame, and connection.
Key Points
BDSM without ropes: Financial domination is a psychological form of kink. The money acts as the bondage and the restriction. Unlike paying an escort for time, the financial transaction itself is the erotic currency.
Reconciling exclusion: Many gay men grow up feeling locked out of straight fraternities or religious communities. Submitting to a straight man using terms like "alpha" or "lord" allows gay men to access and find acceptance in spaces that previously rejected them.
The theatre of the online world: Social media allows dominants to craft heavily edited, idealised personas. They project absolute authority without showing human vulnerabilities. This maintains the necessary illusion that keeps the submissive aroused.
The appeal for straight men: Young straight men often step into the dominant role because it provides them with intense admiration and physical worship that they rarely receive from women.
Eroticising shame: Financial domination takes painful real-world concepts, like debt, homophobia, and powerlessness, and turns them into consensual play. The submissive enjoys being chased and objectified within a safe container.
The necessity of boundaries: A healthy dynamic requires unspoken trust and strict limits. An experienced dominant knows how to push boundaries without genuinely ruining a submissive's life, and a safe dominant will always respect a submissive's need to take a break.
Transcript:
Sergio Rebelo (02:19) Dr. Joe Kort, it is absolutely amazing to have you on the show. Thank you very much for coming on.
Joe Kort (02:25) Thank you for having me. I love this discussion. I am eager to have it.
Sergio Rebelo (02:28) I saw a few videos of yours recently where you spoke about financial domination between men. That is the subject I want to focus on in this episode. We will also discuss certain archetypes that gay men worship, such as the bullying archetype manifesting through the alpha persona. It has been here for a while, but it is coming more to the surface in the clinical room and in conversations between friends. I saw your videos and thought you are the exact person to have this conversation with. I want to make a disclaimer. This is an ongoing and complex conversation.
Joe Kort (03:14) I agree.
Sergio Rebelo (03:23) As therapists, we meet people in the clinical room who are in despair and uncertainty. We see a particular version of people who interact in a financial domination setting. I know people who are absolutely fine with it, who have an established dynamic with a findom and report feeling great joy and relief. Many people will have different responses to this particular play. I want to point out there is an ongoing conversation here and it needs to unfold.
Joe Kort (04:02) I also like the idea that we are not going to sensationalise this. People like to do that.
Sergio Rebelo (04:08) I would like to start by defining financial domination because people have certain ideas about it. Please say a bit about what financial domination is, and then we can separate it from sex work or seeing an escort.
Joe Kort (04:26) I always say financial domination is BDSM without rope. The money is the rope. Having something over somebody is the bondage. You control them through blackmail play and money play. This is all about play, but it is a specific type of BDSM. Untrained therapists get concerned and ask if this is a gambling addiction. When you put sex and money together, it throws off many untrained therapists and people in our culture.
Sergio Rebelo (05:03) There is a point there about this not being in the discourse of therapy. Financial domination is one of the more shameful practices that people participate in. When I see people who go through it, they express a lot of shame. It is very important that we understand what is going on here and what makes it distinctive from other forms of play. You are right in saying it is much more of a psychological form. It is not ropes or impact. It is definitely psychological play. What separates it from sex work is that money pays a person for a set amount of time. There is an hour session with an escort and the money does not escalate. It is not an erotic currency. With financial domination, money is the erotic currency. The higher the number, the more arousing it gets.
Joe Kort (06:13) Yes. The money is the submission for both. For the findom, they do not want to take it from somebody who just has the money to spend on the side. They like the person to feel the pain of almost getting close to debt. It is a mindset we are playing around with. If the finsub says they will not be able to eat for a week, the findom may find that even more powerful in the play between them. The finsub knows they spent a little too much. It is not keeping a comfortable budget. You want to get out of your comfort zone, which is part of the power exchange.
Sergio Rebelo (06:55) It is a tug of war. Here is a play boundary and you push it to see how far it can go. It is an antagonising back and forth. Money must represent something for the dom and the submissive. When the dom sees the amount pop up on the screen, there is a validation process. They receive validation for being nasty and ruthless towards the sub. The money is a concrete symbol of approval in that moment.
Joe Kort (07:57) I always say the money is approval. Some findoms I have spoken with say they feel like cash sexuals. The money makes them feel valued and it turns them on in addition to being dominant over the sub and their bank account. It is very erotic for them. When we pay bills, it is a drag. You have to think about your budget and pace yourself. This has become eroticised. Some finsubs come from families where they could not pay their bills and money was tight. It was painful for them. Now as an adult, they have eroticised that very thing and put themselves in the same situation. They are playing with it with the findom.
Sergio Rebelo (08:49) There is definitely a story around money historically. For many, there is a story around the lack of money or the over-responsibility or under-responsibility around money that plays a role. For the finsubs, there is something about what the function of money does. The audacity that the dom asks for more money proves they are the archetype the sub needs them to be to get aroused. The more you demand money from me, the more it validates that you are the bully or the tyrant.
Joe Kort (09:43) Clients talk about this too. They like the chase. They like being chased because it makes them feel valued, even though they know it is for their money. Both the findom and the finsub know there is an exchange happening between them. It is not just money. It is the fun of the power exchange. Being chased reconciles something for them. They might not get chased on gay apps, so this makes them feel wanted even though it is for a findom.
Sergio Rebelo (10:18) I desire access to this person and I know a way to get access through financial means. I have resources that can get me access. A client described not seeing himself as being used by the findom, but rather he was using the findom. He uses the resources he has to control them and get them to say what he wants them to say. It is an interesting inversion that can happen sometimes.
Joe Kort (10:56) That is a good point. Some people do not like that. Some people want the findom to be in control and give them little clues and take them to the edge. If it becomes a situation where the sub tells the dom what to do, it is a turn-off. Everyone has a different way of doing this.
Sergio Rebelo (11:10) I want to look at the online world because that is mostly where financial domination exists. It is massive in both heterosexual and gay worlds. There is a culture of gay men who glorify and worship the straight archetype. It exists profoundly in the online world.
Joe Kort (11:45) The gay community often says straight men are fetishising and taking advantage of us. That is the whole erotic zone for these guys. They want to be fetishised and taken advantage of. It gives gay men access to straight men. There are gay men who have objectified and long for a connection with straight men. Gay guys who comment on my videos say it is terrible. If you think it is terrible, you should not do it. These guys get off on it and it works for them. It is an erotic taste.
Sergio Rebelo (12:25) I want to zoom in on that. Are straight men monetising gay shame? That is a huge question that divides people. One thing about the online world that makes it particularly seductive is that unlike escorts who have static profiles, the online world allows a dynamic, daily update process. The dominant can create the persona of a straight man, a bully, or a god that needs to be worshipped. Words like alpha, god, and lord are very charged. They can create their world and present it on social media apps. Men enter into that world daily and interact. It allows findoms to edit their persona so you cannot see their humanness or vulnerabilities. People latch onto that edited version.
Joe Kort (14:02) Those are really good points.
Sergio Rebelo (14:06) Findoms can also advertise their achievements. They post about how much they drained a sub. It becomes another symbol of success or power. They do community events, like voice spaces on social media, where people tune in and listen.
Joe Kort (14:42) We see both. Some people prefer one-on-one and some people want that community. The online space is a fantasy. It is live porn. There is no smell or taste. The straight guy usually does not undress or show his genitals. He might show his feet or body for muscle worship. There is no touch. Gay men might say these guys are secretly gay if they let gay men do this. No, it actually reinforces their heterosexuality by having these men do this without ever having to touch one or be attracted back. The findom usually does not show attraction to the finsub.
Sergio Rebelo (15:34) For some finsubs, seeing the attraction of the findom could destroy the illusion because a straight man would never do that. These dynamics have an audience for a reason. By not being sexual, they maintain the dissection between straight and gay.
Joe Kort (16:02) Yes, it reinforces it for both of them. Sometimes the findom will have his girlfriend involved, which really reinforces that he is straight.
Sergio Rebelo (16:12) I want to give attention to the language used. You see words like alpha, lord, and superior. There is religious language as well. Straight is a huge magnetic symbol. What does this say about gay culture that these words are attractive?
Joe Kort (16:54) As gay men, we have been locked out of the straight fraternity and kicked out of religious fraternities. Here we have access to playing with religion and playing with straight men. We are desired, chased, and wanted. Our money is valid here. It is a way of reconciling trauma into triumph. When you call a straight man "lord," you are in a space you never could be in before.
Sergio Rebelo (17:59) I think this touches upon some of the problems people find with this. It sets a value system where straight men are at the top, perpetuating the heteronormative narrative of superior and inferior. People question why you would want to indulge in this and continue the division. I know there is a play around it, but sometimes I wonder if findoms are aware of the play or if they just want the money.
Joe Kort (19:12) I do think there is a lot of immaturity out there. People see the money and do not understand the kink. You do not have to have the kink as a findom, but putting up your middle finger and demanding money is only one element. There are homophobes who do this, but there are also straight men who like to have gay findoms. They like to be submissive to other men. That is hard for people to wrap their heads around because they assume the submissive guy is secretly gay. He is playing with submission and giving a gay guy power over him.
Sergio Rebelo (20:01) The money becomes an excuse. You can tell yourself you are doing this just for the money and avoid having a conversation about deeper connections or questioning your sexuality. The transaction provides an easy end point.
Joe Kort (20:38) Right. It could just be that he is straight and wants connection with another man. We do not have many ways in our world to connect with other men outside of sports, work, or violence. This gives them that connection.
Sergio Rebelo (20:55) I want to turn the attention back to the findoms. It is largely men in their 20s and 30s on social media. Financial domination is an advanced and mature type of play. I wonder why there is such a young audience and what makes immature findoms. Clients tell me they feel locked in a good connection, and then the findom will just block them or demand more when boundaries have been established.
Joe Kort (22:16) Why do young sex workers go into the field? Because they are attractive, beautiful, and have a commodity they can use at that age. Finsubs can be older, and the older generation now has access to the younger generation in a complicated way.
Sergio Rebelo (22:57) I think there is a larger issue regarding young men willing to take up a position of authority and power. Perhaps they feel a lack of this in society. We lack rites of passage and mentors who offer a pathway into adulthood. There might be a generation of lost boys lacking meaning or purpose. The financial domination community puts you on a pedestal and worships you. That can be an intoxicating place.
Joe Kort (24:01) Straight men often say they do not receive the same level of desire from women that gay men give to other men. Women have valid reasons for not approaching men, such as worrying about violence. The findom receives value beyond cash. They are desired, worshipped, and admired physically in ways women might not offer. It gives them a platform to receive something they lack.
Sergio Rebelo (24:54) Straight bodybuilders report the same thing. They expect female attention but end up receiving praise from other men. It illuminates the nature of men and how important aesthetics, physique, and texture are. There is a reason men make up the largest group of participants on the sub side of financial domination.
Sergio Rebelo (26:01) You mentioned there is a reclaiming of power here. There was a loss of power experienced during earlier years, such as hurt or disconnection from the straight community. Suddenly there is a way to reconnect. Are they profiting from gay shame?
Joe Kort (26:31) Yes, they are profiting from gay shame, and the gay men experiencing that shame want to be in these situations. It is erotic play. It is similar to small penis humiliation. The man with the small penis wants to be objectified and talked about. We are taking advantage of horrific things in the world, eroticising them, and making them play between consenting adults.
Sergio Rebelo (27:16) There are findoms who truly believe they are superior and that gay men should be destroyed or repressed. We can never know the true intention of the findom. If they hold those beliefs, it is absolutely wrong and abusive.
Joe Kort (27:51) I completely agree. As a finsub, you want them to be convincing. If they really hold those beliefs, the findom can go too far, take advantage, take more money than they should, and refuse to provide aftercare. The finsub feels shamed but keeps going back, which is a problem.
Sergio Rebelo (28:22) Clients report how difficult it is to assess whether a findom is safe. If a person realises the findom is nice, it discharges the erotic material. It is a quiet negotiation of determining if they are tough but will still hold boundaries. If you discuss the boundaries openly, the illusion disappears. It is a delicate process managed through financial micro-transactions.
Joe Kort (29:13) I love that you use the word illusion. People hear about sex and money and assume someone is being taken advantage of. Any play can get out of hand, but a savvy finsub learns over time if they are with someone they can trust.
Sergio Rebelo (29:43) People experience distress and confusion at the start of their journey because they lack the language to understand what is happening. A finsub might learn to look for a findom with an extensive history and validation from the community rather than someone just starting out.
Joe Kort (30:30) That is where community becomes really important.
Sergio Rebelo (30:34) It is crucial that the financial dominant respects boundaries. An experienced finsub intuitively learns that a safe dom will accept smaller amounts and respect the gesture without demanding massive sums repeatedly.
Joe Kort (31:19) Sometimes I tell people to take breaks. Findoms get habituated to the money and attention, and they need to reset. If your findom is unwilling to take a break and blocks you for needing one, you are not with the right dom. It is one thing to push boundaries through consensual non-consent, but they must respect when you need a genuine pause.
Sergio Rebelo (31:58) Findoms in my office report the exhaustion behind creating a persona. They must push their persona further for social media, which leads to becoming something they are not, ultimately causing burnout.
Joe Kort (32:35) We should also mention that this happens in person. People do ATM meets where the sub takes money out, gives it to the dom, and perhaps kisses their feet. For the finsub, this is highly sexual. Doing it in person adds a strong erotic charge.
Sergio Rebelo (33:40) The metaphor I use is theatre. We go to the theatre to watch a play, and we know it is pretend, but it is valid. You do not have to watch it, but the people in it take it seriously.
Joe Kort (34:12) Blackmail play is also part of this. The findom gets credit cards and naked pictures, threatening to send them to work or home. Therapists might panic, but it is an evolution of the play, like a mountain climber seeking a higher mountain.
Sergio Rebelo (34:57) To reach the level where you share intimate photos for blackmail, there must already be a sense of safety and trust. You do not do that immediately.
Joe Kort (35:29) You move up to that and ensure it is a trusting situation. Then boundaries get pushed. A finsub might say the dom put a blurred picture of them on social media and demanded payment to take it down. A therapist might think it is terrible without understanding that it is part of the theatre.
Sergio Rebelo (35:53) What do findoms and finsubs need to do to ensure they are engaging in this safely?
Joe Kort (36:15) Both have a responsibility. Findoms must recognise if a finsub is vulnerable or trying to take advantage. Finsubs should look at the findom's community standing and follower count. The most important thing is ensuring you can take breaks and set limits. If you find yourself unable to pay bills, you must step back. You should seek a therapist who understands the art and theatre of this kink.
Sergio Rebelo (37:29) It is important for finsubs to check in with themselves and ask if they genuinely believe they are inferior or worthless. You can play with the idea and get turned on, but if you truly believe it, you should see a therapist. Identity versus play is crucial. Post-send remorse is also common. If a sub experiences long-lasting guilt or shame after sending large amounts, they need to evaluate the situation.
Joe Kort (38:37) I completely agree with you.
Sergio Rebelo (38:42) Joe, it has been fantastic. Thank you for your time.
Joe Kort (38:47) Thanks for having me. It has been a pleasure talking to you.
